‘A Drag Race Russia would be incredible’: Fenton Bailey on TV drag, his new book and hopes for the future of World of Wonder
The TV producer would also love to see "Drag Race Cuba, or Drag Race China", he tells Attitude in an exclusive new interview
You could say TV producer extraordinaire Fenton Bailey is to Drag Race what the Wizard was to Oz – or Simon Cowell was (a long time ago) to The X Factor. That is to say, we suspect he’s the brains of the whole operation.
One crucial difference, though: the Oxford graduate, and co-founder of RPDR production company World of Wonder, does not seem particularly interested in hogging the limelight for himself.
“None at all!” the 62-year-old laughs when Attitude asks if he feels any temptation to make a Drag Race cameo in female alter ego form. He admits to dipping his toe in at his all-boys boarding school (“I played Titania, Queen of the fairies, in A Midsummer Night’s Dream”) before adopting a drag persona “once or twice” during his stint as a pop star in the Fabulous Pop Tarts with Randy Barbato.
“Randy was Randy Pop, and I was Fenton Tart,” the British-born, LA-residing Fenton recalls. “We went to Wigstock a couple of times. That was as close as we got.”
We caught up with the 62-year-old at last week’s DragCon in London to discuss his new book ScreenAge, his decades-long friendship with RuPaul, and what the future of World of Wonder could look like.
Hi Fenton – when did pop culture first change your life?
Probably the 60s Batman show. I was six, and we’d just got a colour telly. In retrospect, it was like crack cocaine! I was wildly excited. At six, I had no idea… I didn’t know it was camp.
Camp can be an unspoken language one speaks without knowing…
It is. You do. It’s an energy. It’s one of the reasons I wrote the book. I always thought camp was underappreciated and mischaracterised. Even Susan Sontag’s seminal essay [Notes on “Camp”] is still a put-down. I sort of thought: “No… you got it wrong!”
And now it’s a Met Gala theme!
I know, right?! Which I thought was interesting. I love the Met Gala, don’t get me wrong, but I didn’t think there was much camp.
Some people missed the memo. But there was debate about what it even means. But if you know, you know.
Exactly. If you know, you know. Do you know Simon Doonan? He’s a British guy. Used to be a window dresser at Barneys and he’s written this book called Transformer [A Story of Glitter, Glam Rock, and Loving Lou Reed.] In it, he defines camp, and it’s the best definition… It’s the idea of doing something as if you’re doing something. If you dive into a swimming pool, you dive.
In your panel talk earlier, you described Britney Spears [subject of WoW documentary I Am Britney Jean] as “norm-core.” What’s your most norm-core memory of her?
We were filming Britney, it was her birthday, weeks before the premiere of her Vegas residency. She was doing a press junket in her hotel room. It was interesting. We weren’t part of the press junket – we were filming the press junket. I suddenly had this insight. People come in, ask her the same questions; questions she’d been asked many, many times before. Then, suddenly, the lights went out. They blew the switch or fuse or something. And she was just there, nowhere to go.
Twiddling her thumbs a bit?
Yes. It was a revelation. She’s this massive star, and at the same time, this completely ordinary person, who possibly doesn’t want to be there, sat in a chair in front of a journalist. And everyone wants something special from her. You could sense her anxiety. Like, ‘what do you want from me?’ Then the lights came back on. Someone said: “What’s the thing people don’t know about you?” She said: “I’m an ordinary, boring person.” She’s probably been asked that before and said that before, but no one hears it. Because it’s not an answer you’d print. But it seemed to me she was completely telling the truth.
Any norm-core memories of Ru?
Like many stars, Ru’s introspective. An introvert. Off-stage, very down-to-earth. And there are so many things he’s said that are amazing, that I repeat. “We’re all born naked, and the rest is drag.”
I imagine everything he says sounds profound.
It does. And most of it, in fact, is. I think he’s a bit like Oprah. I’ve met her a few times; she’s incredibly intuitive. She can look at you and figure out what’s going on. And then ask a question that gets straight to it. Ru’s similarly intuitive. He can read people. I don’t mean ‘read’…
He can do both! Changing the subject, I want to touch on last week’s Telegraph story [‘After hours’ drag show offers free tickets to children under eight’], and your Deadline interview from last year, in which you use the term “retrenchment”, perhaps of conservative [cultural] values. I applied that observation to The Telegraph story, which I want to give you an opportunity to respond to.
I was thinking about this. The Teletubbies are here [at DragCon]. They were, what, 1997 – a quarter of a century [old], and they haven’t changed a bit! Tinky-Winky, the purple Teletubby…
Who I really related to as a child!
Who carried a handbag. The Reverend Jerry Falwell, a powerful televangelist in America, now-dead, so powerful he swung the election for Ronald Reagan in the 80s, really went after Tinky-Winky. Saying ‘he’s a homosexual’; ‘gays don’t reproduce, they recruit’; all this hateful stuff. I just remember the ruckus of Tinky-Winky-gate in the 90s. Applying it to what’s happening now, I thought, here we are again. Same old, same old. It’s not true; it’s ridiculous. It’s based on fear.
I’m old enough now to see the pendulum-swinging thing…
It’s not a straight line. Which makes perfect sense – we’re not straight, so why should it be a straight line?! But it’s ridiculous, a distraction.
Speaking of televangelists, and your portrait of Tammy Faye Messner [the Oscar-winning 2021 movie The Eyes of Tammy Faye was based on WoW’s 2000 documentary of the same name] – would you consider doing something similar for Ru? A WOW-produced biopic of his life would be pretty sensational…
I know, right? I’d have to see what Ru wants to do. It’s his story. Ru narrated the original The Eyes of Tammy Faye documentary. It’s a hard question to answer. I’m not being evasive, and I just don’t, I don’t… I see what you’re saying.
Has the idea not occurred to you before?
Yes, it has. But without any real clarity. It’s funny. In the years before David Bowie died, I always thought how great it would be to make a film about him. Then he died, and it’s almost like… when someone is such a big part of your life, and so influential, it’s hard to know where to start to tell that story.
I also imagine you wouldn’t have the time!
Right!
What’s a typical working week for you?
I’m not entirely sure! Randy and I started the company together and had this history as a failed pop act. We know each other really well. The great thing about that from a working perspective, is we’re able to trade roles and share what we’re doing between each other. But without any formula or organisation. One picks it up, and the other does something else. It’s weird, but very nice! But we can’t do everything ourselves. We’re so lucky, we have Tom Campbell [Head of Development], and a lot of the people at World of Wonder have been there for many, many years. We’re this crazy, extended chosen family. Everyone shows up to work because they like what they’re doing. And we’re fascinated by what’s happening in media. It’s such an interesting time.
What is your message to the more toxic corners of the Drag Race fandom?
We’re all figuring out how social media works in our lives, and realising there are more challenges with social media, in terms of bullying and hate speech. We’re at a difficult point with what Elon Musk is doing with Twitter. I don’t think we’ve figured it out yet, as a society, as a world. The message of Drag Race is, really, ‘everybody say love’. Yes, it’s a competition. But I think, hope, what always comes through, is even when they’re competing, it is play, it is a game. It’s not to be taken too seriously. And that’s the truth. You see this tremendous camaraderie in the workroom, and that’s the big takeaway of the show.
In a post-Drag Race, post-social media world, what is your advice to an ambitious new drag queen who may want to take the Drag Race road, but maybe doesn’t?
Just do it. We’re in a media age. That’s another reason I wrote ScreenAge – we’re in the screen age. It’s like the air we breathe. You don’t need anyone’s permission; you don’t need a large amount of money. Everyone’s got an iPhone. Those cameras are better than the ones any of us had to work with growing up! Also, there’s no barrier to entry. It’s not like you need a network to greenlight the show. You just put it on YouTube. Drag queens have always inspired me, personally, for that DIY punk aesthetic of ‘just do it’. They create their outfits often without money, and curate their audience. It’s no coincidence drag queens are adept at building their followings on social media. They understand as an artist, it’s not enough to make something and say: ‘applaud me’. They know you have to really engage an audience and earn their fandom.
Last few questions, Fenton – I’m not allowed to ask about future franchises and things like that, but…
You can ask – but I can’t tell you! The future is unwritten!
I thought I’d ask in a broad brushstroke way, where do you see World of Wonder in 10, 15 years?
The thing that really excited me is the idea of Drag Race in other countries. At first, it started with ‘let’s get Drag Race made in the UK – amazing!’ There was Drag Race Thailand, Drag Race Chile [The Switch Drag Race]… There’s nothing new here in that drag has existed and is as old as mankind. I didn’t feel purpose in [just] the sense of getting Drag Race up and running in different countries, because it’s not just the artistry. There’s another point, about tolerance, acceptance and inclusivity.
Do you want to accelerate that process, or go with the flow?
I suppose both. You’ve got to go with the flow, but you also want it to hurry up.
It would be pretty ground-breaking to get one made in a truly anti-gay country.
How amazing would that be? Drag Race Russia would be incredible. Or Drag Race Cuba. Or Drag Race China.
And it’s plausible. That’s the argument for why it should continue expanding.
Yeah. I think so. It’s not about world domination. Me and Randy always go back to seeing those shows onstage at the Pyramid [Cocktail Lounge in New York City]. Or the Royal Vauxhall Tavern [in London]. Those stars… It deserves as big a stage as possible. TV is a great platform.
ScreenAge: How TV Shaped Our Reality, From Tammy Faye to RuPaul’s Drag Raceby Fenton is published by Ebury Press and is available in all good bookstores now. Order now at https://smarturl.it/ScreenAge.
RUPAUL’S DRAGCON UK took place at ExCeL London from 6-8 January 2023. Tickets are on sale for RUPAUL’S DRAGCON LA now.
Season 15 of RuPaul’s Drag Race is currently available exclusively in the UK via the streamer of all things drag, WOW Presents Plus, with new episodes dropping on Saturdays at 2AM GMT. Subscribe at https://uk.wowpresentsplus.com/.